Comment, questions and Feedback

 The following comments and questions were either made at the conference or immediately following it.  They will help to set the agenda for future events.

One of my set of questions is around the issue that to manage/use buildings effectively increasingly it is getting more and more complicated, and often one needs either to employ an administrator/project manager (what ways can be enabled to afford that), or it falls to the minister who by and large not equipped for that, or does not have the time for it?

Do you have any experience of getting an outside agency to deal with or develop our buildings? We have a hall which we're considering might need replacing / rebuilding. Perhaps a new building with an outside agency building it in which we'd have a space??? It's v complex area and we'd be v grateful for any input. (Sale URC. Cheshire)

Great vision - my church is engaged in doing this now, rebuilding an old hall into a community centre - it would be wonderful if some of these URC funds could be released now, not in 10years time!

if a church sells its building can it use the money not allocated to synod to pay for room hire so it can continue as a congregation?

John McAuly: would it be helpful is we have a vison for our buildings in relation to Church growth than just being reactionists and managers of decline as I believe is the position we have taken as a denomination. What are your thoughts?

Does a new Minister’s training include the problems and cost of building maintenance as well as the deployment of the premises outside of worship

Surely our buildings exist to enbale us to be the Gods Church wherever we are, if they are not doing that then, I might agree with dumping them. It is also a reality that so many local fellowships are burdened by their buildings and perhaps would be better able to be Church without them. But we do like to hang on when we may need to let go.
However, I find a disagree with sweeping statements that target specific locations (e.g. poor areas or urban areas), I’d rather we follow Gods direction and consider enabling local fellowships to be effective Church, where they actually are.

PS - I like roadmaps - they are a very effective route to defining a strategic intent, they are a bad way of managing a project however.

This ‘seeming ignorance’ can be a nightmare in LEPs where both partners are more focused on money for the ‘worship’ element than anything else. Head count of membership, active or inactive often creates the difficulty of the active covering for the inactive in M&M costs and building maintenance suffers

A lot of URCs are gathered churches, not so much in a community like a CofE parish - how should we use those buildings best for the community?

Agree with the "trading" option, but that has been knocked for six by Covid which has hit many previously thriving churches

Is one allowed to say AMEN to both speakers

Could I commend this resource, please, helping rural churches to think about how to use their buildings more creatively in service of their community? https://arthurrankcentre.org.uk/church-life/rural-church-buildings-resource-2019/

Is there a recognised procedure for obtaining tenancy agreements with third parties and if so does the URC provide support and management of this procedure?

Do the different challenges facing churches in rural and urban areas mean different approaches are needed?

Kendal URC is in the process of engaging an estate agent to help maintain our premises 

We can't rely on ministers. They are too thin on the ground.

The URC needs some joined up thinking. there needs to be a bigger connection between church growth, Walking the way, deployment and buildings.

Deployment is a big issue. While ministers shouldn't do everything, if a church doesn't have a full time leader be they ordained or not, it's very hard to do a big building project

Social media may be a way of gathering volunteers from the younger (furloughed) generation.

General Comment – I very much feel that the role of the denomination structures is to enable to the Church (which is all of us in our locations) to be Gods Church. So, for me it’s not about being the URC, rather it’s all about being Gods Church. This means that I react when I hear talk of centralising any aspects of planning and allocating resources to selected areas. Central managing of resources is so often badly done. ( Experiences is 40+ years in industry. )

Emailed in:

• The conference broached the important dichotomy between the Spiritual and the Mundane that goes back to the Early Church. - The Early Church was advised to form a division of duties between Deacons and Elders. Do you not think that that has a lesson for us today? and do you not think we should change our Church Governance structure to be more aligned with that early advice?

• Wherever I have seen a Methodist's Church Building, I have been impressed by the measures that they have taken to move towards Carbon Neutrality. I am delighted that you started off working with the Methodists. - What have you learned from the Methodists?

• You cannot Control anything unless you Measure it. Every few months we get a Church Financial Statement, which is traditionally devoid from reality. Financial Statements are professionally designed to conceal and deceive. (Based on Fibonacci, and Medici for example.).- Can we not make it incumbent upon the Accountants to also report on kWh consumption, for example; and other KPI's that would put the church activity into proper focus?

Questions submitted beforehand:

‘Do you think that there is a danger that the 600 churches that close would more likely be in poorer neighbourhoods, when as a Church, that’s exactly where we should be present and engaged? If so, do you think it’s important to target resources into poorer areas and as a start, would it be useful to map the location of URCs against the indices of multiple deprivation to ensure that we don’t abandon such areas?’

Question = The key is to enable Churches to dream in an uncompromised way is adequate funding and significant encouragement. The level of funding required is not available to all Synods, will a greater sharing of resources ever be possible.

1. As John Says - Redeveloped or refurbished buildings alone is not what brings about mission, vision and witness - its people - congregations and largely an inspired lay leadership - Freeing up assets through building sell offs would need to be accompanied by some reconsideration of different forms and financial commitment to lay ministry - (as we are learning that we simply cannot afford our stipendiary ministry in the future) so what parallel changes are being considered in this area so we can maximise the benefits of our physical assets for the purposes of mission in our local communities?

1. How do we ensure our assets are shared with our communities as the current governance structures for URC churches are not conducive to maximising the effectiveness of such use?

1. Why free up £100 million is assets when the same old men in their 70s and 80s will decide how those assets will be used in the future to build a church in their own image - a dying one! 

FEEDBACK

-I’m sorry I have to leave now but have enjoyed listening to the conversations and will watch the rest on YouTube at a later date. Thank you to everyone involved in this session.

-Hello Carole, A super seminar - please pass on thanks to all involved.

-My overarching feedback is that Churches do not seem to be engaging with Synods and Synods do not seem to be partnering with Churches. (Cliff)

-‘Many thanks indeed for a great conference today. It was brilliant to see so many people there and to listen to some fascinating input and conversations as people unpacked some of the huge questions which were raised about the missional potential of our buildings and explored some radical ideas about how we might take things forward.’ (Simon Peters)

-Very useful to have pulled this conference together, thank you, but it’s important that it doesn’t become yet another ‘talking shop’ – time has already run-out for many churches and 10-years is too far away. Synods should seek to support and resource, not control or block, local churches who are best-placed to respond to local issues and opportunities. eg. manse used as a homeless Women’s Shelter, rather than the Synod saying it must be rented out at the market value. Other issues to discuss are around partnerships, leases, deregulation, project management, fundraising, sustaining projects; happy to share experiences about these. (Joe W)

-Hey Steve, I thought it was fantastic the amount of people that attend, hence why I led with that. I think it’s a good indicator for the organising group about how important and useful such a workshop was, and to build on future workshops as I understand it is hoped that this was the first in a series. Thanks, Ann-Marie.

 Prepared report from URC Communications:

More than 250 people attended the United Reformed Church Buildings Forum’s first online conference on 19 April. Guest speakers included Andy Turner from the HeartEdge movement, and the Revd Dr John Bradbury, General Secretary of the URC. In his address, John spoke about how it’s not the building that makes a Church, but its people. “I often think of there being four dimensions to the life of the church. It’s worship, it’s witness, it’s service and it’s evangelism,” he said. “Our buildings can be the most fantastic resource in enabling all of that. But more than that, buildings also shape the communities that live within them. It was Winston Churchill who famously said ‘we shape our buildings, and thereafter they shape us’.” John also queried what opportunities might be raised if the number of URC buildings reduced from 1200 to 600, suggesting that perhaps it would draw the focus away from property and money and onto mission and discipleship to become a church for the 21^st Century. Andy Turner shared about the four C’s that HeartEdge focus on: commercial, culture, compassion and congregation, and how the interplay between two or more of these enrich a church and cross fertilise one another. In groups, attendees discussed questions such as: how to turn a risk into an assets? How do you balance money and mission? Speaking of the event’s success, Steve Summers, a co-organiser of the event, said: “There’s clearly an appetite and enthusiasm to discern how best to use our church buildings and assets in order to build partnerships for the Common Good; the challenge is whether we’re prepared to be generous with and resource these churches, particularly in more disadvantaged neighbourhoods and communities” At the request from a good number of participants, this conference will be the first in a series. For more information see: https://www.urcbuildingsforum.co.uk/

-very pleased to work further with you so that you don’t ‘sleep-walk’ into closing 600 churches (Andy Turner)

-You cannot separate building management from Synod/ central organisational management – one Synod person dealing with all churches in a Synod is too much for one person. There is no proactive strategy apart from slowly dying, so who takes responsibility for the nudge or put another way proactively having a strategy for each area - how can we facilitate now a process at the local level to get churches to think about their futures and to die gracefully so life can be given elsewhere through the freeing up of assets which don't end up just going to pay ministers salaries and pensions. Representation and empowering experienced and professional lay people on decision making committees and having evidence for where current assets are spent or held is vital, rather than being managed by clergy who often have little buildings management training or experience.

How many church redevelopments have been done where there is ONLY lay leadership ( in the last 10 years)?

How many church redevelopments have been done in the last 10 years in Urban Priority areas or the most deprived communities in the UK?